Queer Flirting: Somatic Practices to Spark Connection with Danie Bergstrom
In this episode of The Better Sex Podcast, I talk with Somatic Sex Coach Danie Bergstrom where we explore what it really means to initiate intimacy with confidence—especially for queer women and AFAB (assigned female at birth) folks navigating trauma, social conditioning, and disconnection from desire.
Throughout the conversation, Danie shares her personal journey of coming out after leaving a 7-year marriage with a man—a turning point that led her to discover somatic work and reconnect with her body after years of dissociation. From that work, she began supporting others who feel stuck, unsure how to move from awareness to embodied change.
Danie offers insight into how somatics can gently rewire our relationship with pleasure and intimacy. Along the way, we talk about nonverbal consent, how to initiate without anxiety, and why lesbian sex doesn’t follow a single script. She also explains why “Where do you feel that in your body?” isn’t always the best place to start—and what to ask instead.
If you’ve ever struggled with initiating sex, felt unsure how to communicate boundaries, or wanted a deeper connection with your body—this episode offers practical tools and permission to start small.
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In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.
Deborah Kat [00:00:00]:
The compute. All right. And I'm just going to start with a Better sex podcast. Welcome and welcome you in?
Dani Bergstrom [00:00:13]:
Okay.
Deborah Kat [00:00:16]:
All right. Welcome to the Better Sex Podcast. My name is Deborah Cat and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex Podcast where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationships. These conversations are frank and can be explicit and may not be appropriate for all audiences. So please listen with care. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world. So if you want to do your part in creating a safe and sexy world, please hit like subscribe and leave a comment.
Deborah Kat [00:00:53]:
Today we are going to dive into the world of my guest, Dani Bergstrom. She is a somatic sex coach specializing in the unique intimacy challenges of women loving women relationships. And she's on a mission to foster joy through sexual liberation. I am so excited that you are here with me today. I'm looking forward to diving into this topic. And welcome. So, I mean, I read the official bio. So tell me a little bit like, how did you get here? What's your story?
Dani Bergstrom [00:01:30]:
Yeah, that question always makes me smile because I think of a different part of my story every time. So the part that I'm thinking of now is after I came out, I left a seven year marriage with a man. And I thought it was going to be rainbows and butterflies and super cool and parts of it were. But I figured out that I really had no idea how to be authentic in my intimacy, my sexuality, or my relationships. And for the first time I really wanted to be with a woman. And so I set on a path of figuring out how to get to know my body and how to communicate and how to just really be present in sex and intimacy with another person.
Deborah Kat [00:02:18]:
Beautiful. Thank you. So I'm curious, did you, did you sort of have a feeling that you liked women? As things were going along, was it something that, that you were aware of? And how, how did that come about?
Dani Bergstrom [00:02:38]:
Yeah, it's. For a while it actually I didn't realize that I was gay and that that was really confusing for me because I kept reading stories afterward of people saying like I was in the closet because I was scared. And they seemed to have known the whole time and I didn't. And I was like, how in the world is this possible? And even my ex husband was like, how did you not know this before? I'm like, I don't know. I'm sorry. But it turns out that lots of years of religious conditioning that was very anti gay. I was dissociated from my body from various traumas. And so I really couldn't feel my desire for anything, let alone a person.
Dani Bergstrom [00:03:21]:
So I was kind of just drifting through life, not really feeling alive in any way and including sexually.
Deborah Kat [00:03:29]:
And so how did you start to wake up? Like, how was. What was that process for you?
Dani Bergstrom [00:03:34]:
Yeah, I. It's actually really funny because I have a strong fixer part of me that I'm consciously being aware of and working with. So I actually got into somatics because I wanted to help someone the time who was struggling with ptsd. And so I was like, oh, I can, I'll fix it, let me help. And so I like frantically googled how to fix holistic ways and I stumbled across somatics and so I started learning it for them. But in the process I was like, whoa, I have not been feeling anything from the neck down. And it was really overwhelming for me. So that was my entry.
Dani Bergstrom [00:04:15]:
And from then on I realized, okay, I think that it's time to focus on me now and stop trying to fix everybody else.
Deborah Kat [00:04:25]:
So what is somatics?
Dani Bergstrom [00:04:28]:
Yeah, so as I understand is working with the body, it's also viewing the body as something that is inherently intelligent and self healing that it has wisdom for us. And somatics is the, the approach that we kind of contact and work with the body instead of traditionally doing a cognitive approach, which is a lot of asking why and kind of a lot of storytelling. So somatics goes a layer beneath that and is really working with the present moment, bodily, physical reactions and sensations.
Deborah Kat [00:05:10]:
So hearing you say that, I'm kind of curious. So it would be. If you're working with some, so, so you're working with somebody and you might ask them question and then refer them back to the body. Is that how that works?
Dani Bergstrom [00:05:25]:
So usually the way I like to do it is a little bit less on the nose because as someone who is so dissociated from my body, when someone would be like, where do you feel that in your body? And I'm like, I have no idea. What a stupid question. And I would like feel really frustrated. I'm like, I don't know what you mean. Like, so with that background, I try to instead read between the lines. So if I ask them a question and I notice them maybe start, they stop breathing or they look away or they maybe their shoulders start to slump a little bit, I'll say, oh, I noticed that this happened. Did you feel that? What happened there for you? So I'm more gently directing their awareness to their body to help them Link maybe their emotion with the physical action of it just to bring more awareness without saying, where do you feel that in your body? Because for a lot of people that come to me at least that question is months down the line.
Deborah Kat [00:06:26]:
Well, I appreciate you actually bringing attention to that because as somebody who does ask people, so where do you feel that in your body? I might want to take a little bit more gentle of an approach there and that, that's great, great wisdom. Thank you. So who tends to, who do you tend to work with?
Dani Bergstrom [00:06:47]:
So I specialize in working with women or any queer person that was assigned female. Female at birth, who's interested in having relationships with other women or afab queers. So really that dynamic of two women or two people with vulvas and the people within that category that seem to find me, they often have struggled with some religious dogma. They often are very self aware and very smart and they know why they are acting how they are. They know why they maybe have trouble with hard conversations with their partner or they know why they're anxious during sex, but they don't know what to do about it. So I find that they come to me at that stage where they're pretty self aware but they don't know how to apply that information necessarily.
Deborah Kat [00:07:38]:
I'm curious. You use the word afab and I'm not sure that all of everybody knows what that is. So can you.
Dani Bergstrom [00:07:45]:
Thank you. Absolutely. So assigned female at birth. That just means that when a baby comes out, the doctor assigns them a gender based on their genitalia. And sometimes people grow up and they don't identify with that gender that the doctor gave them based on their body. So I work with a lot of non, non binary folks as well, but they do have that same anatomy. But that's the woman is not the gender that they necessarily align with.
Deborah Kat [00:08:14]:
Got it. And so what is, what are some of the typical things that. So they, they have an idea that they may be queer. Meaning that they're interested in the, in the same sex and then. But they're not sure how to be in relationship. And how would you say relationship would be different than say a straight relationship? Like what, what are some of the differences there for you or for folks?
Dani Bergstrom [00:08:47]:
Yeah, so I think I'll maybe share a little bit about how I experience the difference first because that usually maps pretty closely to what I hear from clients. So for me I, I had a very specific role from society, from the religion I grew up in. As a woman in a relationship with a man. I was a submissive person. I was looking to him for the final decision. Basically, he was the head of the house, quote, unquote. And as far as intimacy, I was the one who needed to keep my emotions in check so I didn't seem crazy. And as far as sex goes, it was centered around him.
Dani Bergstrom [00:09:29]:
So pnv, penis and vagina sex was the main course. When he was done, it was over. Foreplay was optional. So those are the similar things that I see with clients. Some of my clients do come to explore their sexuality with me and then others are already in a queer relationship. But either way they're noticing that with women it can feel a bit different. And I've kind of parsed apart three main reasons. I feel like we get tripped up when we're with the same sex as far as us women go.
Dani Bergstrom [00:10:05]:
And it's because of trauma, socialization and lack of practice. So I'd love to dive into whatever or any of that that you think is most interesting.
Deborah Kat [00:10:15]:
Yes, I'm in. I mean, let's start with what was the first one?
Dani Bergstrom [00:10:20]:
Trauma.
Deborah Kat [00:10:21]:
Trauma. Okay. How does that affect things?
Dani Bergstrom [00:10:24]:
Yeah. So unfortunately, most of the sexual trauma that happens to folks happens to women over 90%. So even if there's no like sexual assault or abuse there, I do see a trauma in people coming to me about sexuality being dirty or slutty or wrong for women to embody and express. So that's the first one. And so when two people get together, whether they have the specific assault or abuse, but they both have that conditioning which affects them as a form of trauma, then they are both. Both women often are disconnected from their own desire and they have learned to hate their bodies instead of seeing them as a vessel for pleasure. So when both people come together with that in mind, it can feel very shut down. And I find that it can often be.
Dani Bergstrom [00:11:27]:
It can get platonic really quickly. Even when both. Both people don't want that.
Deborah Kat [00:11:32]:
Right. There's. There's a couple of cliches. You know, some of the cliches around same, you know, female, same sex relationships are, you know, the first one is like, what do you bring on a. On the third date? The U haul? Yeah, there's that whole thing about like being socialized to connect and the connection. And then, you know, there's a lot of talk around. Is it bed death?
Dani Bergstrom [00:12:02]:
Deathbed, lesbian bed death? Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:12:05]:
And so, you know, and, and it makes, it makes sense if there's this way in which we' you know, as you said earlier, you know, women tend to be socialized to look outside of ourselves for. For cues around sexuality.
Dani Bergstrom [00:12:25]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:12:26]:
How to do that. And even if we have desire, we're often looking to, you know, seduce our partners into being the one to make the first move, if you will.
Dani Bergstrom [00:12:39]:
Right.
Deborah Kat [00:12:41]:
And so I. I think I'm going to hand socialization over to you and see what else you have to say about it.
Dani Bergstrom [00:12:47]:
Yeah, that's a perfect segue. So for the socialization piece, one of the things that you touched on is the U Haul joke, right? Which is super, super common, actually. Like, it's a stereotype that has a lot of truth to it in our community. So the. A couple reasons from the socialization perspective that I think this happens a lot is because women are socialized into that. The romance idea, right. We meet someone, our eyes lock, and they're the perfect fit for us, and we fall in love, and it's just so beautiful and perfect and everything's amazing. So a lot of us, some of us actually really do want that.
Dani Bergstrom [00:13:26]:
Right. And I'm not discrediting that, but a lot of us, that's the only version of love that we've been conditioned to want. So I think when we find someone that we like, we get that. That rush of like, oh, this is it. This is the one. Everything's a baby, kid's house, Everything's perfect. So I feel like we're really susceptible to doing things on fast forward because of that. And I also think that because we are, we have more permission, in some ways, more commission than men to express a range of emotions, although not all of them right.
Dani Bergstrom [00:14:05]:
But I think that because we are primed for more kind of emotional intelligence, because we're often reading and taking care of people around us as women, that I do think women are often able to have deeper, more meaningful conversations quicker because we have been allowed to track emotions and go kind of manage people's emotions, so we have more practice with feelings in general. So those are the two things that I kind of think kind of pull pour fuel on the fire of the U Haul phenomenon. But yeah. So as far as the initiating sex goes, I. The socialization piece that really comes into play here is women are afraid of feeling creepy and objectifying women because 99 of us know what that feels like. Right. Regardless of our orientation, we felt when a man is not reading the room and is continues to flirt with us or hit on us after we've verbally said no, or after our body language is saying, I'm not interested. So we've kind of felt that that impending creepy Feeling from someone.
Dani Bergstrom [00:15:28]:
And we are so, so afraid of making another woman feel that way, which I think is beautiful. Right. It's beautiful to care about the person that you want to pursue. But I often find that there's an overcorrection. So we pull back so much that we're read as a friend or we're read as someone. Can't really tell if we're into them. And that makes escalation really difficult because there's a lot of breaks on. Well.
Deborah Kat [00:15:57]:
And it also just makes, like, I don't know what I'm doing here. Does she like me? Does she not like me?
Dani Bergstrom [00:16:03]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:16:04]:
Should I suggest something? Should I not suggest something? And if I can add one thing to the U haul, one of my experiences is back in the day, you know, there were very expected roles to have, you know, back. And thankfully, it's. It's. Some things are changing, but it's like back in the day, you could either be butch or femme.
Dani Bergstrom [00:16:28]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:16:28]:
And there wasn't a whole lot else. And so, like, when you found your person, it was sort of like, great, let's make our, you know, let's. Let's. Let's make our fortress together. Because there was so much pressure, but from. From society about, like, you know, is this. Is this okay? That it was. We.
Deborah Kat [00:16:48]:
We became our own. You know, we would create our own safety in our own worlds together.
Dani Bergstrom [00:16:56]:
Right. And I love that you brought that up, because a lot of times it was out of necessity because you were safer if you were together off somewhere and not maybe trying to do it, trying to date, like, from separate places. Right. You needed to have that fortress. And that's like. I don't want to discount that either. But when you do move that fast, whether for necessity or you just kind of get caught up in 10, you tend to merge with the other person and you. I hear from a lot of clients that they.
Dani Bergstrom [00:17:27]:
Every two years, they come up for air out of a relationship, and they say, I don't know. I think I lost myself. I don't know who I was. I don't know what happened there.
Deborah Kat [00:17:38]:
Yeah. And I. I love that you're bringing that up. This idea that, like, you know, when we move that fast, we're generally leaving a part of ourselves. You know, we're. We're making ourselves smaller so that we can fit into the relationships.
Dani Bergstrom [00:17:53]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:17:55]:
And I. You know, the. Which makes the escalation piece really tricky because, you know, part of. I think what. What fuels, you know, sensuality and sexuality is having that distance and Having that, like, oh, it's, you know, once you, once it's established enough that yes, there's interest, you know, once, once you've got past the, like, who's gonna say, you know, shall we, you know, hang out first or whatever? But like, having that, that tension and release is really important to keeping the flame alive. So how, when you work with people, like, what are some of the things that you, that you suggest that they track or that they, that they like, how does this, what do you suggest for escalation?
Dani Bergstrom [00:18:49]:
Yeah, so when I come across an issue like with escalation or someone's like, I want to initiate but I'm scared, I often dial it way back. So in a session that might look like we're talking about escalation and I notice them, they start, they're talking really fast and I'm like, okay, you seem a little nervous. Let's talk about how your nervousness may be affecting how you're showing up even with me on this call. So I find that they often, because there's that lack of connection with the physical, the body, the somatic, they often don't realize how they're coming across energetically to their partner. So that's really the first piece that we work on is how is your energy affecting the space that we're in?
Deborah Kat [00:19:47]:
So to someone who. That might sound really kind of woo, woo too.
Dani Bergstrom [00:19:52]:
Yeah, yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:19:54]:
Another way.
Dani Bergstrom [00:19:55]:
Yes, thank you. I would love to. So body language. The bodies communicate through motions. There's pheromones, there's all kinds of things that we are sensing beyond a conscious level. This physiologically that we read from someone else in the room. It's like if someone comes and sits next to you, if they're fidgeting a lot and they, they just feel really anxious, you start to kind of feel that too because your bodies are just in proximity, communicating. And so because of that body language and that, that communication between our two nervous systems, people are not often aware how their presence in a room, what that does to anyone else around them.
Dani Bergstrom [00:20:45]:
Is that better? Is that less, like a little bit more grounded?
Deborah Kat [00:20:48]:
Yeah. And okay. And hearing you say that, I would imagine then the same thing would be true is it's like, you know, if you're in a room where there's a lot of like energy, you know, stuff going on, energy that, you know, you're, you're. The way that you respond is going to be a little different versus being able to, as you said, calm your nervous system. And you know, nervous system regulation is something that I think we're talking about more and more, and I'm wondering if you could say a little bit more about what that is.
Dani Bergstrom [00:21:27]:
Yeah, I would love to, because I feel like maybe the way that I see it is a bit different than how I see some other people explain it. So for me, and for what I've learned, nervous system regulation is about flexibility in your nervous system to move between states of activation or relaxation based on the environment. So you're able to kind of meet the situation with a response that makes sense. So it's not about being calm and just zenned out all the time, because there are some situations that don't call for that. So you want your response to match the situation.
Deborah Kat [00:22:13]:
And I would imagine when we come in with, you know, a trauma, part of what that is, is our nervous systems are not accurately reading and matching the. The situation at hand. Is that. Is that accurate?
Dani Bergstrom [00:22:31]:
Yeah, that's exactly right. So with trauma, that there becomes a rigidness in the system. So I like to think of flexibility as like a wave. And then the rigidness. The rigidness is like a line. It's like a straight line. So when that comes to sex and intimacy, sex and intimacy bring an uncertainty to the table of what's going to happen next? What am I going to say? How are they going to react? Like, it calls for a lot of flexibility to read the room and shift. Maybe we up our activation as arousal increases.
Dani Bergstrom [00:23:07]:
Maybe we want to turn down the activation when we're relaxing, trying to reach orgasm. So there's a lot of shifting going on. And when there's trauma in the nervous system that makes sex and intimacy often feel really overwhelming because it requires that flexibility, and our system has that rigidness. So we don't yet have the practice of switching those states because the nervous system is rigid.
Deborah Kat [00:23:35]:
And as we start to unwind, the trauma. When clients come to you and they have an experience of trauma, and as you said, it can be, you know, there's. There's a range that it can be. Even within that range, there's a range of different reactions.
Dani Bergstrom [00:24:01]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:24:03]:
What are some of the ways in which you start to help them unwind or help them work with that?
Dani Bergstrom [00:24:10]:
Yeah. So when there is trauma and a lot of people that come to me are dealing with trauma, we, again, I really dial it back. And I want to start with super, super micro doses of pleasure. So if we try to jump into sex right away, that's really overwhelming. And someone might just like, dissociate or freeze, like they're out of the session. And that's not helping them. Right. Trying to force an agenda of like, you need to be in this place.
Dani Bergstrom [00:24:41]:
So I would often start really small of like, I'll have them look around the room and see if they can find something that is nice to look at. Like, is there a color that catches your eye? Is the plant? So that's first, like building their muscle to even identify what may be pleasurable to them. And that's often that Being able to focus on something that feels good is often something that gets stuck with trauma because we get stuck on alert looking for danger, which makes sense because there was. And so teaching the, the mind and the body that the danger is over. The first step is being able to identify things that feel good for us in those small ways.
Deborah Kat [00:25:33]:
And so I'm going to jump around here a bit, but I'm curious, like, so when, let's say you're, you're, you're. You're starting to connect with someone and you're starting to, like, it's clear that there's interest on both sides.
Dani Bergstrom [00:25:52]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:25:53]:
And what, what do you. Not exactly sure that the question is, I'll just blurt something out, see if it. It lands. But I'm curious, like, when do you start talking to the other person about, like, hey, this is what I need or want to be able to fully connect with you and feel my pleasure and to really, you know, have us have an amazing time. And I want to know for, you know, what's your, what's, what's real for you? Like, what's your experience been?
Dani Bergstrom [00:26:27]:
Yeah. So when do you bring in that conversation of pleasure? The big, the big conversation. Right, right.
Deborah Kat [00:26:32]:
And how do you, how do you, how do you have that conversation?
Dani Bergstrom [00:26:35]:
Yeah, I think that's a really great question. I think, like you said, when you're starting to feel a connection with someone, that's a great time to start the conversation. But we don't have to have it all in the same sitting. We don't have to cover all the bases about what you want, what they want, what you need, what they need at once. If that feels too much. Because for a lot of people, that might feel like a lot. So I. What I would do if I'm starting to feel a connection with someone, I would start with what I'm loving.
Dani Bergstrom [00:27:09]:
People love to feel like they're doing something right. And I love to acknowledge people. Right. So I would say I'm really enjoying getting to know you. I'm. I feel like I, I'm wanting to Keep going. With you and I, I would feel really safe if we could just talk for a couple minutes about what we need as far as sexual intimacy, emotional intimacy. And I'm happy to come back to this conversation a different time too.
Dani Bergstrom [00:27:44]:
Just something super. Say it in your own words. Right. You can say however you want. But just broaching the topic like, hey, I actually from that conversation you could learn that you really love. You need a lot of verbal consent. Right. And some people don't like a lot of verbal consent.
Dani Bergstrom [00:28:04]:
They love. They would rather have escalation that is non verbal based on their body language. And that's not something you're going to know by just being like, hey, I like you. Let's go see what we can find out together in the bedroom. It's not going to happen.
Deborah Kat [00:28:19]:
Just to be clear, when you say verbal consent, you're talking about like, would you like me to kiss you now? Exactly.
Dani Bergstrom [00:28:26]:
Can I kiss you? Can I take your shirt off? Can I touch you? And some people like that. And also I find that with myself and a lot of my clients, we don't really like that because it takes us into our heads. I'm a very heady person, so it makes me, it takes me out of my experience. Right. But we're often not taught, like how else to do it because of course, we don't want to cross anyone's boundaries, but we don't know how else to navigate the situation.
Deborah Kat [00:28:56]:
And how would you suggest that it's navigated if not verbally?
Dani Bergstrom [00:29:01]:
Yeah. So it's definitely something that you do need to verbally talk about if you want non verbal consent, preferably outside of a sexual space. Because emotions and vulnerabilities can be heightened when the clothes come off or when, when expectations might be building. But what I've said to my partner is I actually learned that it's really hot for me when we don't explicitly say things. But when you just read my body and know what I want, and for me, like, I know that my body wants something more, I will be making, I'll be moaning, I'll arch my back, I'll lean toward you, I'll pull you close to me. So I let them know, like I know what my body, how my body responds. This is what it could look like and it's hot for me. If you do that for me, you're not processing anything.
Dani Bergstrom [00:29:55]:
Like, I want that from you.
Deborah Kat [00:29:58]:
And do you then, just out of curiosity, do you then say, you know, is there, do you set up like a safe word Or. Or something like that. Do you? Because I think, for me, one of the things that's really hot is when somebody says, and this is super hot in friendship as well as sexuality, is like, you can trust me to know, and you can trust me to tell you, because I know I can be a bit of a personality. And so it's really important for me that people feel like they can say no to me, even though I hate hearing it.
Dani Bergstrom [00:30:36]:
Right.
Deborah Kat [00:30:37]:
I really want that, because it's like I can then relax and feel safe, and I can be more myself. And so I'm curious if that sort of, you know, coming in from the BDSM world but, like, you know, has safe words or any kind of, like, come into play there? Is that something to work with?
Dani Bergstrom [00:30:59]:
Absolutely. I'm so happy you brought that up. I also hate hearing now, but I also. I can't fully immerse myself in the experience unless I know someone can say no. Right. So everyone can just let go and relax and not be monitoring and seeing if someone's enjoying something, because we all trust our agency. That's amazing. I'll tell you my safe word, actually, and I'll tell you how I got it, because it recently changed.
Dani Bergstrom [00:31:23]:
My safe word is oatmeal, and it's because I recently watched Frosty the Snowman for the first time this Christmas, and there's a little kid in it that says oatmeal, and it's so weird, and it made me laugh so hard. So that is my new safe word.
Deborah Kat [00:31:42]:
Beautiful. And, you know, for those that are listening that aren't really up on what a safe word is, do you want to kind of tell them how that works for you?
Dani Bergstrom [00:31:52]:
Yeah, for sure. So for me, a safe word is a word that you say when. So some people have, like, different variants of a safer, like yellow and red. Yellow. You know, close to the edge that I want to be at. Red is stop. Um, I just have one because I feel like I don't. I'm not actively doing any, like, be, like, BDSM intense things that might push that edge for me, that I feel like I need a.
Dani Bergstrom [00:32:21]:
A grading, like a yellow red. So I just have one right now. But for me, it means, like, whatever we're doing, I want to stop. So if someone says oatmeal, we just stop whatever we're doing. And then we usually just pause for a second and just talk about it. Because if I. If I say the safer, then I'm probably wanting to slow down. And so when we check in, I Can verbally say, like, hey, I think I want more of this for a few minutes.
Dani Bergstrom [00:32:52]:
So it's just kind of recalibrating the experience.
Deborah Kat [00:32:56]:
Beautiful. Yeah. My partner and I actually have a safe word for conversations because it really just like, sometimes. What me? It tends to be me more often than we'll get. Like, I really want this answer now. You know, I. This thing, and I get really, you know, antsy about it, and he'll be not in a place to say it, and he will, you know, he'll say it and I won't hear it or I won't want to hear it. But then when he actually says, you know, I've had enough.
Deborah Kat [00:33:34]:
We need to take this conversation offline. Basically, it's take the conversation offline is like, oh, okay, I got it. You know, it really is. I'm pushing him further than he is willing to stay in. He can't stay in this conversation right now. And I think that's a big thing, is it's like, you know, knowing ourselves well enough to know, like, yes, I can have this conversation. No, I can't have this conversation. I'm not sure.
Deborah Kat [00:34:02]:
Let's try it and see what happens. Is a really important part of, you know, communication in general, you know, relationships. And, you know, a really important thing to, you know, as we bring it back to what we're talking about is it's like the more we know each other and can calibrate towards each other, the better our sex is.
Dani Bergstrom [00:34:27]:
Yeah, absolutely. And that. That reminds me that sometimes I. I want to be in a place where I can have a conversation, so I kind of push myself to have it, even if I should have paused a while ago because I'm so triggered. And that reminds me, like, back to the socialization piece. I used to be really performative in bed, right? Like, I'm. Maybe I don't want to do something, but I want to be a good partner, so I'm going to do it and then just whatever, as long as they're happy. I would push my own boundaries and then not tell them that I crossed my own boundaries.
Dani Bergstrom [00:35:04]:
So I was putting myself in this situation that felt really horrible. And my partner had no idea. They just. They just felt that I was withdrawn. So of course they blame themselves. So that socialization piece was probably the. That's probably the hardest one that I had to unlearn because I also was big on faking orgasms, right? This performative, like, okay, you did a good job. Like, we're done.
Dani Bergstrom [00:35:33]:
So that was my final I think big frontier, so to speak, that was like a huge block to having the kind of sex and intimacy that I really enjoyed.
Deborah Kat [00:35:46]:
I'm curious. So one of the things I see with my clients a lot is that we all think we know what sex is about.
Dani Bergstrom [00:35:55]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:35:56]:
And oftentimes when we sit back a little bit and kind of unpack it, you know, we may be actually wanting different things from sex. And what I mean by that is it's like, you know, you may be wanting, you know, the intimacy and the cuddle and the like, you know, that that pleasure that may or may not end up in climax, but just like kind of keeps rolling through and maybe your partner is more in the mood for, you know, that. That big release. And so how is that something that you talk about with your clients?
Dani Bergstrom [00:36:32]:
Yeah, I find that once we talk about that sex isn't one thing, then we really start to kind of fill in the puzzle pieces of what it could look like. Because often, like, I find that they don't know what's on the menu. They like, they can't even think about what they would want differently because they don't. They've never heard of different options. So I love to just talk about the options and watch their face. Like, I could wait, I could ask for that. Wait, really? People do that? Like, yeah, do whatever you want that the other person wants to. Like, it's fine.
Deborah Kat [00:37:09]:
So that kind of makes me curious. What's. So what are some of the things that are on the menu that surprise people?
Dani Bergstrom [00:37:15]:
Yeah, I think one, I have two things that often surprise people the most. Number one maybe is not as sexy, but it's pausing. People don't realize that they can pause sex without it being over. So they often feel like once they start, then they just like a roller coaster. They have to just go till the end. And yet you can pause like, hey, can we actually take a minute? Or like you can laugh or you can really redirect the experience. You're not locked into one thing. So that surprises a lot of people.
Dani Bergstrom [00:37:48]:
That, that's. That that can happen. And the second thing that can happen that I talk about is sex can happen in little, like bite sized pieces. For example, you can be making out and feeling each other up in the shower. And then maybe you have to go to work, and then maybe you have a lunch break where you sex them a little bit. And then maybe later one of you gets off, or both of you, or neither of you, you can break it up. It doesn't have to be this two Hour experience that you never have time or energy for. You can make it fit your life.
Deborah Kat [00:38:24]:
I love that. And what, you know, one of the things I often run into is it's like, especially with. With, you know, heterosexual sex, it's like, basically, as you said earlier, you know, there's a big formula. It's like little bit of foreplay, penetration, climax. Both of you, you know, supposedly come together, but it, you know, oftentimes one or both of you is faking, and then there's kind of like the nap and it's over.
Dani Bergstrom [00:38:57]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:38:58]:
And I'm curious, when you talk with especially, you know, women who might not have had a lot of experience with each other, how do you. How do you talk about, like, what successful, I guess, for lack of a better word, what successful lesbian sex looks like?
Dani Bergstrom [00:39:18]:
Yeah, that's actually a question I get a lot like, so, what is lesbian sex? What. What is it? And there's always a little bit of resistance at first when I tell them, like, it's not one thing. Like, that's impossible. No, it needs to be a thing so I can do it. So there's a little bit of resistance to that idea that, that sex is defined. How you define doesn't have to include penetration. So something I. I find that a lot of lesbians or women who want to sleep with women who don't have a lot of experience yet, they assume that penetration has to happen.
Dani Bergstrom [00:39:56]:
So they buy a strap on and they might not even want it, and then they use it on the person that might not even want it. And then things are like, oh, did we like that? Is it done? I don't know. And it can get a little awkward. So it doesn't. There's no penetration that has to happen. That is completely optional. So that's a new way of looking at it that I find a lot of people with less experience grapple with at first.
Deborah Kat [00:40:27]:
So basically what you're saying is that it gets to look like whatever the parties who are enjoying the experience, whatever is working for them. Um, and what is. I mean, again, as part of the escalation, as part of the, the, the. The conversation. You know, one of the things. I think I heard Dan Savage say this a million years ago, but he was talking about, like, you know, one of the nice things about queer sex is that you actually have to have conversations about it. Because, you know, with straight sex, there's a fairly, you know, there's. There's a lot of assumptions about, you know, what's going to happen.
Dani Bergstrom [00:41:07]:
Right.
Deborah Kat [00:41:08]:
But you don't make the same sorts of assumptions with queer sex because, you know, there's different options. And so I'm curious about, like, if you have a. I'm thinking like in some communities it's the consent conversation. If there's anything like, is there not a formula? But are there specific things that you want to make sure that you ask? Because as you're getting closer to the sexual experience.
Dani Bergstrom [00:41:41]:
Yeah, I think there are a few, like, categories that I think should be covered. Number one is like we already mentioned, how do you like consent to be done? Verbal, non verbal. If it's non verbal, what does that look like? Will you say no when. If I do something that I misread? I also like to talk about, is there anything that triggers you that you know of during sex? Right. Going back to the conversation about trauma, whether it's, you know, it could be internalized, homophobia.
Deborah Kat [00:42:16]:
Right.
Dani Bergstrom [00:42:17]:
So they. Maybe some people get triggered in a certain position because they feel like, oh, this is queer and gross. So I'm, I'm triggered now. Is there anything that you know, triggers you? And if so, what? How am I going to know that you're triggered? This was a huge one for me. When I realized that people could talk about this. I realized that sometimes I would get triggered with penetration, like with the strap on. It would trigger me from, like, past experiences with men that weren't pleasurable, consensual. And I would leave my body and then I would come back.
Dani Bergstrom [00:42:56]:
And when I heard someone kind of model that conversation around triggers, I was like, oh, that's me. That happens to me. I didn't even know. So then I was able to communicate that. And then like, for a while, when, if there was penetration, like even with fingers in that way, my partner would check in with me and say, do you like that? Because talking helps me come back from dissociation. So we were able to work that into our little formula. But talking about the menu, I didn't even know that's something you could ask for. It never occurred to me until I heard it modeled for me.
Dani Bergstrom [00:43:33]:
I was like, wow, this is so cool.
Deborah Kat [00:43:39]:
Oh my goodness, I cannot believe how quickly our conversation, our time is gone. So in a moment, I'm going to ask you to just consider, like, since our conversation has been wide and, and varied, if there's one thing that you want to make sure to underline so that people understand that from our conversation, wonder what that might be. And I'm going to give you a moment to think about that as I let people know how they can support the Better Sex podcast Cause you know, sex is a complex issue and it can really make or break a relationship. And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in an environment we're talking about. Sex is welcome. And so that's why I offer the Sexual Mastery Break Breakthrough session. It's personalized, it's one on one experience so that we can get to the bottom of why you're not having the kind of sex you want. Because let's face it, a podcast, even as good as this one, is not enough.
Deborah Kat [00:44:39]:
You need more. So if you're ready for tools and tips and exercises that'll help you to improve your sex life so that you can have better sex and a more satisfying relationship, please check out the show notes and book yourself a Sexual Mastery Breakthrough sess. Because honestly, life is too short for bad sex. So Danny, I am really thrilled that you joined me here today. And so what, what would you say, what do you want people to know before, before we close things out here?
Dani Bergstrom [00:45:15]:
I would love people to know that pleasure is like many things, a spectrum. And if you cultivate a practice in your non sexual life of just finding little things that bring you pleasure, it's going to be a lot easier to enjoy and ask for the pleasure that you want in the bedroom too. So it's a full, all encompassing skill and joy finding pleasure. And it'll, it'll be great in every area of your life if you can do that.
Deborah Kat [00:45:48]:
So good. And I know that you have a gift for people who are listening and I'd love if you'd tell us a little bit about that.
Dani Bergstrom [00:45:56]:
Absolutely. So, because we're talking about escalation and that's a really, really common issue that I also struggled with, I made a free training that talks about initiation, the common blocks to it. We dive deeper in that training because we have a lot more time than we did here. And it talks about how to overcome them so that initiation no longer feels creepy or anxiety inducing or you're wondering if they're in the right headspace. And there's that gas breaks, gas breaks, confusing dynamic between you two. You can actually initiate with confidence and without taking rejection as a world ending thing. And feeling that rejection is actually the person honoring their own boundary. So it really changes your whole perspective on initiation, how to do it.
Dani Bergstrom [00:46:39]:
And the different ways that your partner could respond are all going to strengthen your connection.
Deborah Kat [00:46:46]:
Thank you for that because that is such an important piece and I know that this is geared towards women and I do want to say that Having listened to your. Having listened to your podcast and your information before that. Yes. It also could be very helpful for men as well.
Dani Bergstrom [00:47:06]:
Absolutely.
Deborah Kat [00:47:08]:
I just want to thank my guest, Danny. Where can we find you?
Dani Bergstrom [00:47:13]:
I am@sapphic sexologist.com I've been kind of pulling back from social media with all the censorship and stuff and I've. I send out great emails and I have my podcast and my YouTube Sapphic sex talk. Those are the best ways to find me unfiltered.
Deborah Kat [00:47:30]:
Absolutely. And I really, I highly recommend. I was listening to some of the podcasts in preparation for our conversation and really appreciate the wisdom and the permission that you bring to the world in terms of finding who you are as a sexual social being. So thank you so much for that work. Please follow her on. On, I guess it would be YouTube and on your own podcast. And again, if you want to bring more love, create a better world. If you know somebody who could use the conversation that we've had to help them have a better sex life, please pass it on.
Deborah Kat [00:48:17]:
Also, like subscribe, comment. It really helps us to get really good information out into the world in a world that really needs it. So please do your part, like subscribe and comment and bye for now.