What Women Really Want in Bed with Susan Morgan Taylor, MA
In this episode of The Better Sex Podcast, I talk with leading Somatic Sex Therapist Susan Morgan Taylor. We explore how women can reclaim their sexuality—not by waiting for someone else to unlock their pleasure, but by learning to create it for themselves.
Susan shares her powerful personal story—how she went from a sexless marriage to discovering deep, full-body pleasure on her own. That awakening became the catalyst for her life’s work helping others break free from sexual shame and disconnection.
Together, we unpack the common myths about women’s sexuality and why so many women lose interest in sex over time. Susan explains how stress, safety, and relationship dynamics shape desire—and why learning your own body is essential for lasting connection.
She also introduces her Pleasure Keys framework, rooted in relaxation, presence, and internal awareness. Along the way, we explore how to navigate mismatched libidos, sexual fantasies, and communication challenges with curiosity instead of shame.
This conversation is a reminder that great sex starts within. You’ll leave with practical tools—like the “pleasure date” practice—and one bold question to ask yourself that can turn your sex life around.
Connect with Susan
Website: https://www.pleasurekeysretreat.com
Free Gift: eBook: www.pleasurekeys.com
Free monthly masterclass https://www.pathwaytopleasure.com
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Susan Morgan Taylor [00:00:00]:
Fun.
Deborah Kat [00:00:01]:
Absolutely. All right, so I'm just going to go ahead. I'll read the Better Sex Podcast, read your bio, and then ask you to introduce yourself. So on that note, welcome to the Better Sex Podcast. My name is Deborah Cat, and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex Podcast, where we have unfiltered conversations about sexual sex and relationships. This show has very frank conversations and may not be appropriate for all audiences, so please listen with care. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world.
Deborah Kat [00:00:44]:
So if you want to do your part to create a safe and sexy world, please hit like, subscribe and leave a comment. Today we are diving into the world of my guest, super Susan Morgan Taylor. She is a leading somatic sex therapist who helps couples deepen their intimacy and create lasting, fulfilling connections. With over 25 years of experience in somatic healing, she developed the pleasure keys process, a powerful approach to realigning sexual and emotional harmony in relationships. And I can't wait to hear more about that. So welcome, Susan. I'm so happy to be here.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:01:27]:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. And I'm so excited for our shameless conversation today.
Deborah Kat [00:01:33]:
Thank you. So how did you get here? Like, how did sex become the focal point?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:01:41]:
Yeah, Such a good question. And again, my joke around this is, it's not where I thought I would be when I was, like, six years old, dreaming of what I wanted to be when I grew up. I did not think that I would end up being a sex therapist. Nowhere on my radar. But I did always know that I wanted to help others. I always knew that was going to be part of my path. And my journey into the sex therapy world really happened when I had my own sexual awakening back in 2011. I was actually in school at the time, pursuing my master's degree in professional counseling.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:02:13]:
I just started my program. I was maybe just a couple or three semesters in when I just had a huge aha. Moment. And I had found myself at this stage of my life. I was divorced with two young kids. I had left a sexless marriage of 10 years, and I had found myself in a subsequent relationship where the same problems from my marriage sort of followed me. And I really was determined to. To not continue that pattern.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:02:43]:
That relationship did not last very long, but the takeaway from it was this realization that I'd always made my part responsible for my sexual pleasure. And I always put it on the man, like, he's got to be the one to bring it. He's got to be the One to rock my world. He needs to be an amazing lover. He's got to know how to make my body do all these things. And really where that left me was just in this place of disappointment and this longing for something more that I had no idea how to create. And I had a moment where I just realized that if I wanted something different in my intimate life and such that specifically sexually, if I want a deeper sexual connection, full body orgasmic experiences that I had heard about but always thought were just for somebody else, like not for me, that I was really going to have to learn my own body. I was going to have to really invest some time and energy and attention into learning how my sexual energy worked, learning what I liked, what I didn't, learning how to use my voice in order to be be able to ask for what I wanted or needed.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:03:48]:
And so that's what happened. I decided to go on the study of my own sexuality. I made a declaration that I was really just going to figure out how it all worked. I wanted to have these deeper experiences. I wanted more full body type of orgasms. I wanted sex to feel like more than just sex. And as soon as I made that declaration, amazing things happened. I had books that jumped off the shelf at me.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:04:11]:
I had a chance encounter with a somatic sex therapist that changed my life. And then I had an experience with my own self. Part of what I had done was set time aside every week to have what I called a pleasure date. And I committed to just marking off a couple hours every week, Put on candles, soft music, got naked and I touched myself. I got intimate with my own body. And a few weeks into this practice I had an experience where all of a sudden I had this wave of pleasure that just started from the bottom of my feet, literally like a tingling, vibrating sensation. And it rolled up through my legs, through my who body. And all this love and joy just shot out of my heart.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:04:53]:
And I remember like my hands were like vibrating and I felt like I had like moon gloves on or something. Like it was so weird, my face was numb, but all this love was pouring through my body, all this pleasure was rippling through me. And I had this moment of realizing I was having a full body orgasm. And it was that moment that I decided I knew right then and there that I wanted to go into sex therapy, that I wanted really to help other women be able to have this type of experience. Because I had come out of a marriage where I was totally disinterested in sex. By the way, I was the one Like a sexless marriage. I was the one that was totally disinterested. And suddenly here I am having massive amounts of pleasure orgasm.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:05:34]:
And there's no man to credit that to. It's myself. And that was the moment that I realized that love, pleasure and orgasm, these things are inherent states within us and with our own bodies that nobody actually gives that. It doesn't come from an external source. It's a function of our own body, how we naturally, when the obstacles are removed. And that was really all I had done up until that point was I had been gradually removing these obstacles to being able to just access these deeper experiences of pleasure, orgasm and love. To the extent that I no longer needed to look to the relationship. I didn't have to try to grab on to a man to give me love or create love for me.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:06:13]:
I knew that love was literally the gift that I had to bring and give to the world and to others and to any future relationship that I entered into. And I was very lucky. About six months later I did attract a wonderful partner into my life. And he was very open to growing and learning together. And I was able to sort of implement a lot of things I discovered about myself into that relationship with him. So it was really beautiful experience. And that's the end of the story, the beginning of the story. And I went into sex therapy after I got my master's degree and went into private practice.
Deborah Kat [00:06:47]:
I'm kind of curious. This is just a question that popped into my head. You said that you're, you had a sexless marriage. And I'm curious, like what was the proof regression, Was it always that way? Does it, did it sort of taper off? How, how did that happen for you?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:07:05]:
Well, it's interesting because I think the statistics say that it's really common for women to lose interest in sex over time in long term relationships. It's like a really common thing. And it wasn't always that way. I think I was very typical of many women who at the outset it was great, it was fine. But over time I lost interest. And one of the reasons for that, one reason that I learned and discovered as I going through my sexual awakening is in part because we're not allowing our bodies, the time that our bodies need as women to really become open and fully available for the sexual encounter. We're sort of defaulting to, to what we get because we don't really know that there's an alternative. We don't really know what else is available to us.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:07:48]:
So we default to what tends to be the case for most men, or what works for most men where sex is over pretty fast, they're erect right away, penetration happens pretty quick, and two to seven minutes later, the whole thing is over. And so that's kind of what was happening for me. We might have made it to 10 minutes. And I was able to have a lot of orgasms, by the way. I know I never had. And a lot of women have challenges with that. I didn't have that problem, but. But there was still something.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:08:15]:
It just wasn't deep, it wasn't nourishing. Something was missing, and I didn't know what. And so I think what happened was over time, that was an aspect of it. I just sort of was like, there's just not a lot in this for me, and started to just do it to kind of keep my husband happy. There were also other things contextually in the relationship that were not conducive to me feeling safe, like I could access my desire and my pleasure. So I think we have to take that into consideration too, and understand that women's sexuality, we tend to be very plugged in contextually to the things that are happening. I had small children. There was a lot of other disharmony and discord happening emotionally with my.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:08:55]:
My husband. That was not making me feel like I could really bring all of myself, like it was safe to be vulnerable. There was a lot of financial stress. There were all these factors that were going on that did not really make it conducive to my. My body to be open or available or interested in sex. High cortisol levels are a result of stress. When cortisol levels are high, we're not in the place where we're available for pleasure. It's a totally different part of our nervous system.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:09:24]:
And so there was a lot of that happening contextually, which I think caused me just to shut down and lose interest.
Deborah Kat [00:09:31]:
So with the. I'm just curious, with the cortisol, is that the. Does that happen for men as well as women, or is that mostly for women's bodies?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:09:41]:
No, it's for both men and women. So cortisol is the. It's the stress hormone. And we need to have certain healthy amounts of cortisol, but it's when we have chronic stressors. So if you are, you know, in a really stressful job that you can't get out of, if you're feeling trapped in a situation that isn't really nourishing to your soul, that can cause cortisol. A whole bunch of things can lead to increase in cortisol levels. And so it's not specific just to women. It's in both men and women.
Deborah Kat [00:10:13]:
Well, and I think what you point to as well is that, you know, context and things that happen outside of the bedroom affect what happens in the bedroom.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:10:22]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Deborah Kat [00:10:26]:
Yeah. I'm curious. You know, one of the things that we talked a little bit about before jumping on together was some of the myths that we have, the stories that we tell around with women's sexuality. And, you know, what you described was very much like my experience. And I count that to. I credit Harlequin romances for my sexuality because they're all about that. Like, they're all about. I don't have any agency or empowerment.
Deborah Kat [00:11:00]:
And, you know, my partner needs to know everything, which, you know, not only is that not great for me, but, you know, or him. But it puts all of that pressure on him.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:11:11]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:11:12]:
And so I really enjoyed what you were saying when you were starting to talk about, like, your pleasure dates and really learning for yourself what was good and what was. What was pleasurable.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:11:27]:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's a really toxic myth that is perpetuated out there in the world. It puts a lot of pressure on men to have to know and to have to figure it out. And it puts women in sort of, yeah. Kind of that helpless and disempowered place of, well, I don't know. And he need. And it just leads to confusion all around.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:11:45]:
So I love that you mentioned that because I think we need to get away from that. And the. The other thing I'd like to speak to around this is that we can't give something up that we've never had. So, for example, if our desire is to be in a place with a partner where we're totally surrendered and he's leading the moment and doing it gracefully and pushing all the right buttons and really taking us there. That's awesome. But we don't get there by just assuming that it's going to magically happen. We have to, in my opinion, first learn how does my body work? What do I like, what do I not like? What are my limits and boundaries? And can I learn how to actually use my voice to ask to receive that from a partner who is willing to provide it or willing to at least learn how to provide it in working at that level, first of using the voice, and then if I so choose now I'm skilled and I can later go into a type of experience or maybe that's. We have an agreement where that's not necessary.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:12:47]:
I can be in a place where I'm more surrendered. I'm not directing the moment. But in order to do that and make that safe, I still have a responsibility to. To make sure that my limits are respected. Like I. There's no such thing as being totally without responsibility. That puts it, makes it an unsafe place to play. And it's not fair to put the entire responsibility of that on the other person.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:13:11]:
So there's a real co creative thing that needs to happen. And that all comes down to skills, communication skills, skills of consent, skills of clarity. How do we clarify the space of what's happening, who it's happening for? Who's the giver, who's the receiver? Learning how to do all of that is what makes those spaces much more fun. And literally is the anatomy of pleasure. It's literally how we consciously create pleasure. Wow.
Deborah Kat [00:13:36]:
Thank you. So I'm curious, when you. So you work mostly with couples and what are some of the. Some of the main, I guess, stories that they come in with or, Or. Yeah, what are some of the main things they come in with?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:13:56]:
Well, here's a real common one that I see all the time. A lot of couples that come to me have had what I refer to as train wrecks. So somewhere along the way in the relationship and in the intimate relationship, something isn't working and things kind of start to go south to the extent that every time they become intimate or try to be intimate, they bump up against whatever that thing is and causing what I call a train wreck. How train wrecks often end is with couple just avoiding having so much anxiety around intimacy that they often just back away from it and avoid it altogether. And yeah, and so that's obviously a problem, but the reason for that is because they don't know how to navigate through that space. They just simply don't have the education or the skills to understand what's actually happening when those train wrecks happen. And then they're not equipped with skills for how to navigate through it. One really common cause of that is not.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:14:54]:
No. And this is one of the questions that I say, like every couple should be able to answer this question. If you know how to answer this one question. Like it will create so much more clarity in your sex life. It's like a game changing question. And that question is, who is it happening for? So anytime there's a train wreck that happens, slow down and look at whose desire am I following right now? Am I doing what I want to do or am I doing what I what my partner wants to do, or am I doing what I think my partner wants me to do or what I think my partner would like. And most of the time it's the latter. We're doing what we think the other person wants in order to make them happy, but we've never taken the time to actually clarify if that's truly what they desire or not.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:15:40]:
And meanwhile, the other person thinks that that person, that partner, is doing something for them. They're doing what they want, when really they're trying to do what the other person. So there's this whole, like, mess that's going on, all unspoken. It's very murky and very muddled. It's not clear at all. So one of the things I do when I work with couples at my retreats and in private coaching is help them understand how to find the answer to that question. And comes down to is understanding whose desire am I following. When we have that answer, then there's a whole other set of skills, nuances that help us clarify.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:16:16]:
All right, am I giving or receiving? And if I'm in the giving role, then I have a whole set of things that I'm paying attention to versus if I'm in a receiving role, I'm paying attention to a different set of things. And once we have that, then the sky's the limit. We can really, truly sink in to our roles fully. And nobody is doing something that they don't want to do or pretending to like something that they actually don't like.
Deborah Kat [00:16:41]:
And what happens when you. When a couple comes to you and, like, they want things that feel really different or. One of the things I'm seeing a lot lately is that, you know, they're. They're. One of the partners will want something that seems, you know, outside of the norm or, you know, a bit on the kinky side or. Or. So what. How does that.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:17:08]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:17:08]:
What do you do with that?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:17:09]:
Happens all the time. So there's a couple things that are going on here. On a really basic level, it's the skills of negotiation, like learning how to negotiate mutually satisfying experiences. There's a whole set of skills. It's one of the things I teach at my retreats. It's part of what the pleasure keys is about. The process that I use to help couples. Learning how to separate my desire from your desire, and learning how to identify my limits, my boundaries, as well as you identifying your limits, your boundaries.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:17:38]:
And then it's a matter of, can I determine what am I willing to do or give or not willing to do or give. What am I maybe willing to do or give? So there's. That There's a whole bunch of skills there. And the other part that I think it's overlooked a lot is that we don't understand that we have different arousal maps. Couples don't understand that their partner's arousal map might be quite different from their own. I had a experience like that myself in a relationship from many years ago where we had very, very different erotic landscapes. And I felt very threatened, actually, by my partner's desires. He wanted all kinds of things that I was very willing to explore and learn, but I just didn't know.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:18:22]:
I didn't have the skills of knowing how to navigate or negotiate. And he didn't either. He was not patient enough to actually learn how to allow me to learn and wanted me just kind of automatically know how to do all these things. And it ended up in a lot of train wrecks and a lot of pain and a lot of suffering until that relationship just kind of came crashing down, in large part because of our sexual differences. But it doesn't have to. I think that's the thing that if. If we're able. If couples are able to understand, there is a pathway.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:18:52]:
Couples need a framework. That's the thing that's missing a lot. They don't have the framework. They don't have the shared language, the shared lens to kind of look through, To. To look at the situation so they can have a common understanding to navigate through it. And again, that's kind of where some of what I do in the retreats is equip the couples with that framework and that common language and where they learn. Actually learn it in their bodies. It's not just up here in the head.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:19:17]:
We have to learn it somatically or through the body, not just talk about it, read about it, or analyze it.
Deborah Kat [00:19:23]:
You know, it's so interesting. As I'm hearing you talk, I'm realizing that one of the biggest skills we need, the communication skill, is also the thing that, at least in. In the. In the couples I often work with, like, they are so afraid of talking about sex.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:19:38]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:19:38]:
And I've been really thinking about, like, you know, why? Why is that? Because, you know, sex is such a big part of our lives and really can make or break the relationship sometimes. And yet it is the one place where it's like. Like having that conversation is sometimes so challenging.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:20:01]:
Absolutely. We bring in so much baggage with our sexuality, and part of that baggage is a lot of shame. Shame that we're Going to be too much or not enough. We all have some. Some sense of that or some. We're on the spectrum somewhere, almost all of us with that, right. Until we get conscious of it and start to more actively work with it. Hopefully we're able to reduce that over time.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:20:24]:
And then there's also a whole lot of fear that comes in to sex. Sexuality. The fear, the reason why it's so hard to ask for what we want or to talk about things sexually is a whole host of fears. Fear of being rejected, fear of being too much, feeling obligated. Oh, my God, if my partner wants that, then I have to give it. Not true. No, you don't. But we.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:20:48]:
We have all these things that just aren't clear, especially when it comes to sex. It's literally. It's one of the reasons I love working with sex, because we get right to the meat of things right away. You know, let's just get to the main core issues in this relationship, which. Let's go to the sex that's going to show everything, reflect everything else in other parts of the couple's lives. Going to be the most challenging spot. But it's very scary because it's our most vulnerable place. It's where we reveal our most vulnerable self and some of our most.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:21:16]:
Some of our desires. Our erotic fantasies can carry a lot of shame. So it can be extremely hard to. To bring that in and to be witnessed by another person out of fear of being judged or rejected from. For example.
Deborah Kat [00:21:30]:
How important do you think it is that couples share those fantasies?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:21:37]:
I think it's important to some degree. I think that, you know, we have to learn how to create safety in a relationship so that sharing those fantasies can feel enjoyable, fun and safe. I've also. Well, I've personally experienced some train wrecks around that. Too much too fast or being shamed or judged. And. And I know that a lot of couples are very afraid of that. So I think it really depends on the quality of your relationship, what you want to share or disclose, how hot that it can make it by disclosing some of those things.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:22:12]:
But there's also a right timing with that. And it has to be. I think there has to be a certain amount of trust and respect and a lot of understanding that just because somebody expresses a fantasy doesn't mean that you have to. The other person has to act on it or to fulfill it. We have that misunderstanding too. The other thing with fantasy is fantasy is a fantasy. It's meant to be a fantasy. It's not Meant to be a reality.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:22:36]:
Now, there might be some that you would love to actually implement in real life, but a fantasy is meant to be a fantasy. There's reasons why it's called fantasy because it's meant to not be real. It's not meant to be lived out in real life. So we have to have, like, a healthy, understanding relationship with fantasy. I believe also that we, you know, it's also part of what we can keep just for our own internal sexuality. We don't have to share every single kinky erotic thing that's on our mind with our partner. There can be an aspect of our sexuality that's just for ourselves. Not everything has to be opened and shared and disclosed to your partner.
Deborah Kat [00:23:14]:
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And what do you think about the idea that. How do I want to put this? I was working with a couple the other day, and one of the complaints was that the partner was in fantasy. And for them, being in fantasy helped them to be able to perform some of the things that wanted to be performed, if you will. And the other partner was rather upset with the idea that they were kind of, you know, in. In. In checking out was. Was the.
Deborah Kat [00:23:51]:
My analogy. And I was like, you know, not. We go in and out. At least this is my experience. We go in and out. Like, at least I do. You know, I'm up in my head. I'm doing my thing over here.
Deborah Kat [00:24:04]:
I'm down in my. And then I'm with my partner and I'm kind of going through all of these different.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:24:11]:
Sure.
Deborah Kat [00:24:13]:
Pathways and. And, you know, if I. If I'm hooked in where it's like, I can only be with my partner and I can only have concentration on them. Like, there's other parts of my. Of. Of the experience that aren't going to be as fulfilling and satisfying.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:24:31]:
Sure.
Deborah Kat [00:24:32]:
And I'm curious if you've experienced anything like that in your.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:24:35]:
I absolutely have. In. In my work with couples as well as I personally had experiences. And I think that what that person is probably speaking to there. It. You know, especially. I'm assuming it was the. If this was a heterosexual couple, was it the female partner who was saying was upset that her male partner.
Deborah Kat [00:24:53]:
Yeah, it was indeed.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:24:55]:
Yeah. And so what she's really asking for is more consciousness from him. And what can happen on a very subtle level, whether women realize. Whether she realizes. Realizes it or not, she's. There's a certain. There is a certain disconnect that can happen when we go up into fantasy. We're going into a Certain aspect of his consciousness separates from the moment.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:25:16]:
And so what that can do on a subtle level, but it can be very noticeable, is a feeling that she's been abandoned or somehow left. She's just sensing the withdrawal of his consciousness. So it's not that it's wrong, there's something really necessarily wrong. But what she's asking for is for more of him, more of his consciousness, more of his presence. And she's feeling that disconnect happen when he goes up into his mind. So there's that happening relationally. The other piece to this is one of the ways to work with this is through embodiment. And I know like in my own journey, one of the things that I had to do was learn how to be in my body.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:25:57]:
I really relied on fantasy a lot to, to. To have orgasms. And even during masturbation, during partnered sex, I always used fantasy in order to orgasm. Such that when I decided that I wanted to cultivate a new pathway and a new approach and to be more present in my body and to. To learn how to have more sensitivity, I really had to learn how to set. It was such a habit. I had to learn how to kind of set that habit of fantasizing aside and just focus on the physical sensations in my body. And the benefit of that, when we do that is that we have the capacity then to access deeper levels of.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:26:36]:
Of pleasure potentially. And then these full body orgasmic states that weren't accessible to me just through fantasizing. I had a whole different domain that opened to me when I was able to learn how to just focus on sensation. But it wasn't immediate. I didn't have a lot of sensation at the outset. There was a lot of numbness and lack of sensation and lack of feeling. It was really frustrating. So I thought, well, I'll just.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:26:58]:
I could just use a fantasy. But I was really wanting to have a new pathway. I wanted to have more options available to me than just relying on the fantasy. So I think that we have to look at it as fantasy has its place. But it also ideally should be a choice like something that, that we're not reliant on in order to get aroused or get off. Like we have to have that. That just means that we're limited. We're just limited to that one pathway.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:27:23]:
We ideally want to have more flexibility and the ability to access many different pathways to pleasure, not just one through fantasy.
Deborah Kat [00:27:31]:
This seems like a really good time for you to tell us a little bit more about the keys.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:27:36]:
Yes, pleasure keys. Well, We've kind of been. We've sort of been talking about them, we've been weaving them through. Ultimately, it's really an interconnected series of skills and outcomes that we're really working with, principal skills and outcomes. And really, I'll just go into three of the main ones. Fundamentally, it has to do with relaxation, learning how to relax. And part of that, a big part is letting go of the goal of orgasm. And also learning how to let go, how to at least have the option to.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:28:08]:
To let go of the mental fantasizing. Like that can be there, but do we have the option? Can we also be present in the body? Can we relax the mind and not need to tighten up or activate mind in order to create a feeling in the body? Can we learn to just relax to be present in the body? That's. The next piece is just prep. Well, awareness. Is the next piece. Is my awareness focused externally, outside on what's happening in the room or on my partner, or is it internally focused? So a lot of the work that most of us tend to need to work with, at least initially, is that internal focus. Can I take the attention inward and downward towards my own sensations? What am I noticing in my own body? What am I. What am I capable of noticing? What's available to me right now in this moment, whatever it is.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:28:55]:
And it might not be a whole lot if we're not real skilled at that skill yet. And then the last piece is presence. Automatically when we're relaxed and our awareness is focused on sensation inward, downward, in the body. We come out of that monkey mind and the tatty mind and the to do list and all that stuff up here. Chat, chat, chat, chat. That. And we're here. We're here now.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:29:18]:
And that's where intimacy lives. That's where pleasure lives. That's where connection lives, is in this right now moment. And so those are just the three fundamental skills or keys that help us deepen connection, create more pleasure, and also expand our orgasmic potential.
Deborah Kat [00:29:35]:
Thank you. I want to come back just a moment to some of the myths that. That we have about women's sexuality. Specifically. We talked a little bit about the sort of the giving up of power, the, you know, he knows better than I do, and sort of the Harlequin Romance fantasy.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:30:00]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:30:01]:
So I'm wondering about some of the other things that you've run across over the years.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:30:06]:
You know, there's so many. And unfortunately, our scientific and medical community doesn't do us a lot of favors in this realm. There's really this Myth propagated that women's sexuality is deficient, dysfunctional, and broken because it doesn't look like men's sexuality. There's one study that I like to reference from 2005, I believe it was done by Albert Einstein College and Yale University. And their study studies concluded that. I think it was 48% of women are, quote, sexually dysfunctional. And the reasoning for that. Yeah, I know.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:30:46]:
I was, like, really pissed off, too. Like sex. They labeled them sexually dysfunctional. And the reasons were for lack of sensation in the clitoris and lack of orgasm. So. Right. Which are. So that's a dysfunction, apparently, according.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:31:02]:
So you see what I'm saying. So there's sort of this cultural narrative and a scientific narrative and a medical narrative that if a woman has numbness in her clitoris, she's dysfunctional. If she has challenges reaching orgasm, she's dysfunctional instead of. The real problem here is not that she's dysfunctional. It's that there's genuinely a lack of education around women's sexuality. What works for our bodies is different than what works for a man's body. As a woman, we have the same amount of erectile tissue in our genitals as a man has in his penis. The difference in a woman's body is that that erectile tissue spread out over a number of structures.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:31:37]:
It's not all centralized in one spot like it is in the penis. And a woman's body, we have it all over the clitoris and the labia and the perennial sponge and the G spot and the cervix. It's all over. So what needs to happen is more time for each of those areas to get aroused and fully engorged with blood before a woman is going to be able to access orgasm, or at least to access it consistently. For some women. Women, not. Not all, but for a lot of women, we need a lot more time and attention and the ability to really relax into the moment. We need time.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:32:13]:
And most of the time, we're not giving ourselves that time. We're allowing penetration to happen far too soon, and then it tends to be over far too fast. If women need. I think the studies have said it's 21 or more minutes of foreplay before a woman will be consistently orgasmic during sex. And I'm assuming that means penetrative sex. But most men ejaculate within the first two to seven minutes, depending what study you consult. Two to seven minutes of penetration. So this is the problem.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:32:42]:
Right. And so if we're expecting a woman to just be instantly orgasmic as soon as a penis is inserted into her. That is not realistic for most of the women out there. We need more time. So if we're putting male standards on women when our bodies are totally different, our sexual energy is totally different, obviously we're going to be. Be assumed to be dysfunctional and it's just not true. So I think that myth needs to get like thrown out right now.
Deborah Kat [00:33:08]:
I am down for that. I think I was, I heard, I think it was Esther Perel talking about foreplay begins at the end of the last orgasm.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:33:24]:
Right.
Deborah Kat [00:33:26]:
I love that. And you know, I. I've been thinking a lot about, about foreplay and about romance and how those two are connected. And I'm curious what you think about this because one of the things I've been noticing is, you know, we have this very specific way that we're. That romance is presented to us. Flowers, chocolate, you know, all of that stuff. And when I think about that, like that to me sounds like gifts from the love languages and my version of romance. You want to get really romantic with me?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:34:04]:
Yes. Tell me, Deborah, you fill up the.
Deborah Kat [00:34:07]:
Car with gas, you get it detailed and then you just leave it for me to find. And when I find it, you know, I'm going to be all over real.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:34:19]:
Yeah, it's, it's such a different. Yeah, it's a very limited definition. The former one, chocolates and roses. And I think what you're speaking to are these really unique ways that we experience turn on and the things at different stages of life. I know that when I was, you know, married with two young kids, my turn, I was like, do the dishes. Like, that's hot. That makes me want to you, you know, like, leave the dishes for me. And all the cooking, all the cleaning, like, no, not feeling it.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:34:46]:
So I think it can really depend on where we in our life stage and what are the things that I think that help us again, I think what you're speaking to is that helps you to feel loved. It helps you to feel relaxed. It helps you feel like you've got this really beautiful car that's now clean and detailed. There was this act of service that just happened and that's a turn on for you. We each have a different pathway to our own turn on. And I think it's limited too. Like the chocolates and the flowers. That doesn't.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:35:16]:
Yeah, I mean I have a whole different. Just lay me on the bed and do me properly and I'll be happy. It's my turn on. I love this question, too. I worked with some sexuality coaches, and I love this. This is something I've used with my couples, and this is really fun. If you think about, like, if you only had 90 seconds to get turned on, like, what would you ask your partner to do? Like, if you could ask your partner for anything and you only had 90 seconds, like, what would it be? 90 seconds to your turn on? And most of the time, if you really think about it, you'll be able to come up with, oh, okay. It really makes you think of, oh, here's what I would.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:35:56]:
Here's what would do it for me. It's really fun.
Deborah Kat [00:35:59]:
Yeah. My brain just went all over the place. Oh. Because I realized, you know, in that question, there's. There's kind of different things I want from different lovers.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:36:09]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:36:10]:
You know, but they all have a flavor of an act of service. Taking something off my plate so that I can have more space to be in the moment.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:36:23]:
Yeah. It really forces you or your listeners, if anyone wants to try this. It forces us without question, forces us to really identify or to cause us to be responsible for our own pleasure. Like, what are the basic things? What would I need him to do and how do I want to feel? And if I only had 90 seconds and he was willing to provide it, like, what would I ask for? It really causes us to be responsible for our own turn on. And I love that, because then it's not. Then I can actually be like, okay, this, this, this, and that. And then we try it. We actually get to implement it.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:36:54]:
Let's implement that. You get 90 seconds. Try it out. It's hot.
Deborah Kat [00:36:58]:
It's so good.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:37:00]:
So it rarely involves flowers and chocolates. Like, think, though, back to our point. I mean, I don't know, maybe for some people, it does. No judgment there, but I think chocolates and flowers were part of my 90 seconds to turn on either.
Deborah Kat [00:37:13]:
So tell me a little bit about what is it like to work with you?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:37:18]:
Oh, my gosh. I mean, I think you'd have to ask my clients that. But what? I. I don't know. What is it like to work with me? So maybe you're asking, like, what does it look like, look like, or what kinds of things do I do with. With couples? Yeah, I would say, yeah. So largely. So my training is in clinical mental health therapy, and I was a licensed sex therapist working with couples for a decade before just kind of leaving.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:37:44]:
Leaving mental health. And now I do somatic sex therapy and coaching. And the somatic piece is a really big part of what I do. And for me as a somatic sex sex therapist, I don't lay hand, I don't put hands on couples, I don't put hands on people. So I'm not hands on. There's some somatic workers that do hands on work. I don't, my work when I speak to somatic is really about incorporating the body and body based experiences and real time experiences that bring my couples into contact with the thing that is challenging them or in the way. So it's not just like talk therapy where you're just kind of talking about or analyzing a problem or sort of traditional couples therapy.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:38:22]:
There's a place for that, but I just find it's limiting. So the couples that come to me have usually reached their limit with other approaches and they're really ready for a more experiential approach. So a lot of what I do with couples is craft practices or experiences in session where they're really having a real time experience of connection or intimacy. And I don't mean we're not, you know, it's clothes on, there's no like sexual touching that's happening when I work with a couple. But they're learning how to develop the skills of connection, the skills of communication. What I call the three ends, which are part of the pleasure key process, noticing, naming and negotiating. And there's a whole set of skills like underneath of each of those three ends. They're learning these skills so that they can literally become the creators of their own experience.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:39:10]:
They can literally learn how pleasure live, how pleasure is created, and be able to do it consciously. So I don't know if that answers the question or not, but that's kind of the best that I can describe what I do and what it's like.
Deborah Kat [00:39:23]:
I love that. Thank you. Thank you. I, I, it's always so fascinating to me where people start and how they move into, into the kind, this kind of work because there's so many different approaches.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:39:37]:
Yes, so true.
Deborah Kat [00:39:39]:
And I really, one of the things that's, that, that, that I'm hearing in your work is really there's a place around, there's something around negotiation, there's something around how do we, we both get what works for us.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:39:54]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:39:55]:
And you know, hearing you say that, I'm like, oh, they're the, the win, win. Who doesn't, who doesn't want to win and who doesn't want their partner to win as well?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:40:06]:
Yeah, yeah. That part is a really big piece. And I think where a lot of couples get stuck is they try to go to that step before they have the first two skills or the, you know, there's actually, actually more skills under each of those first two ends. There's several under each. But they try to go to trying to negotiate experiences, but they don't have the foundation to make that A, safe and B, effective. So that's where the train wrecks happen. Or they resort to solutions that aren't really a solution, you know, or shouldn't, probably aren't the best solution for the problem they're having. Are not the most effective thing.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:40:47]:
There's other solutions that are much more effective and going to actually help them. They just don't have the roadmap for it. That's where couples get stuck.
Deborah Kat [00:40:55]:
Yeah. Well, as you say that, I, I am kind of looping back to this idea of how little education we have about, about sex and relationships.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:41:06]:
Yeah.
Deborah Kat [00:41:07]:
And I'm just curious. I, you know, in terms of what you often see as I, I'm curious if you ask your clients, like, where did they learn about sex or what kind of sex education they got and what some of this, what some of.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:41:28]:
Those answers might be, what the answers are. Well, you know, very few of us have ever had sex ed in middle school or high school. I don't even know. I think when I was a kid, we got a little bit in middle school. School, that was it. And nowadays I think my kids had one day or half a day. You know, I don't even know what they're doing in terms of that. But even that's not an education on pleasure.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:41:49]:
That's on, like, sex is scary and it's dangerous and don't do it mostly Right. I think a lot of men and young, younger and younger men and boys are learning from porn, pornography, and they have access to it much, much earlier now, ages 6 and 7 sometimes, from what I understand, which is a terrible place to learn about sex and pleasure. It's a terrible place to really learn about that or even about relationships in general. Otherwise, people learn from their peers, which isn't always the greatest place to learn either, because it's like the blind leading the blind. Right. And then I think there's sort of the, the few that get older and have challenges and discover, you know, reach out for support and help and even know that support and help is available. I would hope that the listeners listening to this podcast, they're probably here looking for solutions, I would imagine. And I'm really glad to know that there's platforms like this where people can start to Learn.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:42:53]:
But there's such a huge percentage of the population that doesn't even know that something like a sex therapist exists or that help is available for these very common problems that couples face in sex and intimacy. So a very select few are actually reaching out there and educating themselves. I think people listen a lot to podcasts and books, which is a great spot to begin, but obviously what I hear a lot for good reason. You kind of hit a roadblock with that because the book is great, but it doesn't actually tell you the how. Like you're not actually going to have the how of how you actually do the thing to resolve the problem that you're specifically having in your relationship. Relationship. So all that's good, but at a certain point, working with a professional, I think is a, is a wonderful way to go. And there's so much available out there now and like you said, many different threads and different approaches.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:43:45]:
So there's a lot of professionals out there that people can find the right fit for them and the right approach.
Deborah Kat [00:43:51]:
So I'm going to take a moment and invite you to pause and think about if, if there was one thing you wanted people to get out of our conversation here today, what that might be. And I'm going to tell people, I'm going to take a moment and let people know how they can support the Better Sex podcast. And because, you know, as we've been talking about, sex is a complex subject and it can make or break a relationship. And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in an environment we're talking about sex as well. Welcome. And that's why I offer the Sexual Mastery Breakthrough session. It's a personalized one on one experience so that you can have more satisfying sex. Because let's face it, a podcast, even as good as this one is, is not enough.
Deborah Kat [00:44:38]:
And Susan said, you know, we need, we need feedback, we need support. And so if you are ready to take your sex to the next level, please check out the pot, the show notes and book a Sexual Mastery Breakthrough Session. Because life is just too bad, too short for bad sex. So, Susan, first of all, I am gonna out you because I know you've got your own podcast and you offer retreats and then one on one coaching. And I'm excited that you're, you're here as a resource for people. And I also, we talked a little bit about a free gift and I would love to let you, you know, not let you, but invite you to, to tell us, tell us more because it sounded really.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:45:30]:
Yeah. And just in response to what you shared there, that working with a professional shortens the learning curve and helps you not spin your wheels wasting time and resources. So another big and good reason for listeners to book that call with you. And then if anyone is interested in what I have going on. So again, yes, I do couples retreats and also private coaching. I do couples retreats several times a year. We do have one coming up here this year in just a few weeks or in just a few weeks. But again, they happen multiple times a year in different locations.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:46:05]:
The retreats are an amazing way really for couples to pull away from the chaos of daily life life. I just find it's one of the best formats for couples to go deep and to really move the needle on the relationship when they're outside of the daily distractions. They're not having to worry about work, kids or the demands of a household. And I can really lead them deep into the experiential practices that we talked about earlier, the Pleasure Keys. It's called the Pleasure Keys Couples Retreats. So all of that information about those upcoming retreats as well as information about my private coaching lives on my website at pathway to pleasure.com I have a free monthly master class that I teach as well on the five Keys to getting back on the Same Page in Sex and Intimacy and ditching the mismatch Libido for good. That happens once a month. And I teach it live so I get to be with you live.
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:46:51]:
I talk about the three causes of mismatch libido and then ways to overcome it. And you can get on my website, pathwaytop pleasure.com and click on Masterclass if you're interested in joining me for the next one upcoming on that that. And then I do have the ebook that we talked about called Pleasure Keys, which goes over the three principles that I mentioned earlier, Relaxation, presence and awareness. But I actually give you some steps for how you actually cultivate those skills. So if anybody is interested in kind of having a little bit more like practical advice and things that you can actually do today to help you deepen connection and enhance your orgasmic potential, you can get a copy of that ebook@pleasurekeys.com.
Deborah Kat [00:47:30]:
And all that information will be in the show notes. And so I'm curious, what would you like people to get out of our time together today?
Susan Morgan Taylor [00:47:39]:
Well, I think yes, I was thinking about that as you were speaking about your thing there for a minute. And the one thing I think is such can be such a game changer that a lot of couples never stop to really think about. I really see the light bulbs go on a lot when I share this with couples. If you were 100% response responsible for your pleasure in the relationship, what would you be doing differently? How would you be showing up differently? What would be different? And that I just want to leave your listeners with that question to ponder and to really consider for a moment because at the end of the day, that's what's true. You are each 100% responsible for your pleasure in the intimate relationship. And when we understand that that we take our power back, we then have the ability to advocate for our needs, to ask for what we want, or to give to ourselves what we need and what we want.
Deborah Kat [00:48:33]:
Ah, that's such a great question. Thank you so much. And what a beautiful inquiry to leave people on. So I just want to say thank you so much. My guest, Susan Taylor, you can find her at Pathway to a Pleasure. Please follow her on all of the all of the sites and check out her website. And if you want to help bring more love and better sex to the world, please share this episode with somebody who might need to hear what we have to say and like subscribe and leave a comment. And bye for now.